Chill. Let me explain myself. You can tell me why I’m wrong later.
- How will Canadians take this coalition government? We can say all we want about how “this is in the Canadian public’s best interest, we need an economic stimulus package, blah, blah, blah...” (don’t get it twisted, I sincerely think this is true) but the bottom line is that this looks like a power grab. A power grab during the most serious economic crisis in 70 years. Canadians are looking for politicians who will help alleviate this crisis, not use it as justification for a political power grab. THEY WANT ANSWERS NOT PARTISAN POLITICS. If Canadians considered us to be the party that would do anything for power, this move that solidifies that image. I know, I know, they started it. But we’ll be better off if we show that we aren’t of the same breed.
- A coalition with Jack Layton and the NDPs? C’mon. You’ve got to be kidding me. We’ve spent the last 50 years making it clear to centre-left/left voters that a vote for the NDP is a vote wasted, and in a week we’ll be reversing all that by having this coalition gov’t. It makes Layton and the NDP a legitimate option. This only makes the NDP more of an electoral threat in the future. Furthermore, it’s going to be hard for the Blue Liberal segment of the party (a large segment) to get behind a coalition with the NDP (although Cherniak has).
- Think that Westerners hate the Liberals already; think about the fallout after this. This will play extremely BAD in the West. EXTREMELY BAD. I’m talking NEP BAD. Steven Harper and the Conservatives are the embodiment of the West overcoming decades of alienation and frustration. This coalition will rob them of this. They’ll be pissed (PISSSED). Everyone has basically acknowledged that for the party to be relevant in the future and truly be a national party, we need to be competitive in the West (wealth, people, power heading here). This puts us back another 20 years. For the sake of Liberals in the West DONT DO IT.
- Think strategically. Harper would be responsible for managing the country during this economic recession; an economic recession that is hyped to (or has?) shake this country at its core. In the meantime, the Liberals are re-building their party. When the economic recession rocks Harper (this is global issue that Canada alone cannot alleviate), the Liberals will be primed and ready to spring into action. By having this coalition government we reverse this. Instead, the global recession rocks us, Conservatives are ready to roll with attack ads highlighting our failures and our-petty-power-grabbing nature. Not good.
- The rest: a coalition government during this recession? Effect on the market? A coalition supported by a separatist party (not cool homie, not cool)? A changing of the leader come May? Didn’t Canadians just voted for a Conservative minority gov’t, not a Lib/NDP coalition one? TOO MANY VARIABLES. TOO MANY SCENERIOS THAT COULD MAKE THINGS WORSE. TOO MANY WAYS IN WHICH THE LIBERALS COULD GET SCREWED.
- There’s a bunch more, but I’ve gotta study for finals. If you have any, post them in the comments.
I loathe Harper and the way he operates. But the Liberal Party needs chill and not get emotional. Chill. Reorganize. Rebuild. Revitalize. And get back to it in a years time when Harper has screwed everything up. Don’t look like power hungry SOBs. Don’t piss off the West (for our sake).
These are my views. Judging by the views posted on Lib Blogs, they’re pretty much sacrilegious. I stand by them... but I’m willing to be persuaded otherwise.
daveberta has an idea of how to combat these problems. It's a great idea that would definately alleviate my aforementioned concerns but I don't see it happening.
Posts
.jpg)
26 comments:
From the preamble of the Accord:
"a belief in the role of Government to act as a partner with Canadians and Quebecers."
You have already partitioned the country! This is the first government ever to have agreed to such a thing. Woe, Canada!
This is treasonous behaviour. Shame, shame, shame. Liberals will regret the day that they undermined our country for the sake of power.
JC Kelan
Hey Avi!
Great post!! I'm so glad I'm not the only Liberal that feels this way! I actually just finished writing an email to the Lib/NDP MPs outlining a lot of these same points. I agree that the backlash could be seriously disastrous.
One of the other questions I mentioned in the letter was how soon they actually expect to have parliament up-and-running again after forming the coalition, since typically it takes a month at the very least to transition to a new government (as we saw with the transition from Conservatives to Liberals in 2006). I don't see how this month of uncertainty, transition, and parliamentlessness (that's a word, right? haha) is good for the economy, which is essentially what they are justifying this power grab on.
Furthermore, coalitions require a LOT of time, effort, and energy in order to have them work in an effective manner, so I worry about the efficiency of such a set-up, especially when we see a very divided liberal caucus. Liberals need to spend time on building support at the grassroots level and seriously renewing the party's viability instead of participating in Harper-like chess games.
JC:
1) Quebec is now a nation
2) Visiting every blog and pasting your message as if it is something earth-shattering just makes you look incredibly desperate, and incessantly ignorant. Go back and read the responses that you got BEFORE you visit another blog.
The most important job of a Canadian Prime Minister is national unity.
Stephane Dion has failed on this point already.
By entering into a formal accord with the Bloc, he has:
- given them legitimacy in the eyes of soft nationalist and even federalist voters.
- made it easier for the Bloc to campaign in the next election as being "not really" about separation.
- made the separatists seem a whole lot less scary for voters.
The Liberal Party are creating winning conditions for separatists.
Shameful.
JC Kelan
I'm not sure I agree with you completely, but I will say this: I think that some VERY STRONG gestures of a nonpartisan nature are going to be required. If the coalition will go ahead, I think that it will be absolutely REQUIRED that the Libs, NDP and Bloc call off the dogs, and temper the schadenfreude to invite the Conservatives to debate, negotiation and compromise as much as possible. Otherwise, there will be no indication that this coalition intends to appear differently than the events that created it.
Anna, it's very reassuring to hear someone who thinks the same!
You're definitely right. The coalition transition phase will take awhile and in the meantime Canadians will be demanding action. It also distracts the party from its real issues. I hope the party leaders recognize it.
There will be a 'next election'.
How will the Liberals, NDP and Bloc run against each other?
All 3 parties will come out of this parliament with exactly the same record.
How can you condemn the Dippers when you were part of THEIR government.
Make no mistake, this is a DipperBloc government installing the largest party, the LPC.
Next election, why would those Quebecers, Greens and Dippers who voted Liberal to stop Harper, do so ever again?
Next 'coalition' government, Liberals may not carry the most votes.
Unless of course, this coalition is officially the uniting the left.
This was a very good posting. If we stop and think for a few moments, we find that no one really wins.
Consider...
The Conservatives get defeated in a questionable constitutional process. No matter what you think of them - they did win the election. Let them loose fair and square, non confidence and/or election.
The Liberals now appear that they will do whatever is necessary to gain power. Including getting into bed with the separatists (can you hear Trudeau crying from the grave?)
The NDP now have no distinct platform. They have always been the voice of the far(ish) left, a voice for the more unfortunate of us. Even with seats in cabinet they have agreed not to speak their real ideas - at least not more then the Liberals will permit.
The Bloc have may become part of the "Canadian" federalist power base (I can hear Levesque rolling over in his grave too). Never mind all the Qubecers who have stood so proudly for their views. Agree of disagree, they fought hard for them.
In the end we recognize the need to reconcile our differences, but where have the values that these groups all stood so long for gone?
And, remember, this is just because the opposition is afraid of being embarrassed, and they may have had to do a little more fund raising? (Which has now been taken off the table!)
In short, we have all "lost confidence" and today we are all losing a bit of Canada.
Just for the record - I am a French Canadian, born in the west, kinda right leaning social Liberal and left leaning fiscal Conservative.
What of the impending Liberal leadership convention? Will Stephane Dion step down at that junction or continue to hold power until the Conservatives forcefully oust him?
Assuming Linda Duncan and a few Vancouver/BC MPs get cabinet spots this could actually revitalize Alberta/BC progressives. NDP might take Edmonton-East and Libs retake Edmonton-Centre next time (provided its in the 18 or 30 months they hope to last).
If the coalition works the only one to come out worse off is Harper and his core Conservatives (the rest of the party needs him out sooner than later).
LOL... you guys have really screwed your selves now. It looks more and more like the Conservatives planned this entire fiasco.
Lump the 3 Stooges all together, let them run the economy into the ground and a year from now there will be a new Conservative natural governing party elected in a landslide majority.
Wow... great burn.
Remember Harper taped Laton saying they were working on a coalition before any of this happened. They knew what could happen. Is this a power grab or a political trap?
Avnish,
I am a Conservative and a Calgarian, but I am impressed by your post. I think you get it---this is bigger than partisan politics.In the meantime,Canadian to Canadian, let's both hope clearer heads prevail!
Lynne
You're absolutely right. Just when I thought I couldn't detest Liberals any more than I already do, I've reached a new level.
1) Prime Minister Harper has been governing as though he had a majority, with no regard for the opposition parties and the majority of Canadians who supported them. If the opposition feels that they have a common vision on some key issues, and that Harper isn't focusing on the economy (no bailout), then they have every right to find a way to work together. We elected MPs, not parties. Its up to them to figure out how they choose to organize themselves.
2) Coalitions are by their very nature, temporary. There is nothing said that the Liberals can't revitalize themselves, change the way they do business, or turn around next election and say: "These are the things we would have liked to have done, but our partners won't let us".
3) Your fourth point is the most problematic, as it comes across saying "to hell with the country, as long as Harper looks bad". Roosevelt took over during the depression in the US, did a good job, and was reelected repeatedly.
No, Canadians didn't elect "Harper Prime Minister" or a "Conservative Minority". They elected a plurality of conservative MPs who (temporarily it seems) organized themselves into a minority government. Responsible government means governing with the consent of the House (as the elected representatives of the people). If the house lacks confidence, then the government lacks legitimacy.
People seriously need to start looking up the terms "responsible government" or "confidence" before they start spouting off nonsense like "power grab" or "coup d'état". This is the way minority parliaments work. If the Liberals can't stand up and say "The Conservatives don't understand the laws of the country they want to govern", that's an entirely separate issue.
Ahhh ... just so you know ... Canada's racist extreme Right Wing has now adopted you as their hero!
Duncan,
It's not what the truth as we see it; it's the truth as mainstream Canada sees it. If people don’t' understand responsible government, confidence, coalitions, etc there is nothing we can do about it. We have to act accordingly.
The post was a dispassionate, practical assessment of the situation, something that has been missing in the discussion so far, particularly among the Lib/Progressive bloggers. Let’s think past one year and see how this deal will impact the party in the long run.
Thanks for your ideas,
Avnish Nanda
Still A Liberal
I disagree, Avi. We don't pander to the lowest common denominator. They do (or should) understand the numbers involved, ie the proportion of Canadians who voted for coalition parties vs who voted for the "our way or the highway" CPC.
I don't think it was practical at all, and in a number of cases, your arguments put partisanship over policy. I'm not questioning your commitment to the party (I don't really care, I've voted 3 different ways in the last 3 elections), I'm saying that if people think that 37% of Canadians get to dictate 100% of the policy, then we have a problem. It's about policy, not partisanship.
Duncan,
You are right. More Canadians voted to support the Bloc, NDPs, and Libs. They didn't vote to support a coalition government. We don't really know where Canadians stand (do they have polling data on this yet?). This is the X factor. I think its to big of a risk.
We have a problem with our electoral system. I think a vast number of Canadians believe so as well. But that doesn't mean that people are gonna buy into a coalition government. Especially the way it looks now (ie. power grab).
It's not work the risk. It could end up really bad. The leaders of this party need to take a step back and think about what the impacts will be.
Why did Dion say he would never form a coalition with the NDP just 2 weeks before the election. He said the NDP would be bad for the economy. If he was right then, does that mean he's wrong now?
How could Libs even think of pushing Dion on Canadians. He was voted down just a month ago. For the Libs who think it's a good idea, would they support Dion in an election?
Geez - would you look at that...
http://www.sfu.ca/~aheard/elections/1867-present.html
Since 1958, only two elections had a single party receiving 50% of the popular vote or more - the Conservatices in 1958 (53.7%) and in 1984 (50.0%). In fact, rarely has anyone exceeded 43%.
Strange that no-one saw fit to make deals with the enemy simply to grab power.
The people have spoken indeed
Yes ... as I said, you are now a big star with the Blogging Tories and Canada's extreme right wing!
Your post and your name is all over the Blogging Tory site!
I love how the conservative bloggers completely took your quotation out of context and used it to support their own partisan punditry.
It's almost like they didn't realize that you were commenting on how bad it would be if Liberal support went down more than it already is in the West.
Oh wait, they probably didn't.
Anyway, I'm severely disappointed in the partisan wrangling of all four elected political parties. Less partisan bullshit, more substantive politicking!
I think you get it, but the real factor I think is overlooked is that in these tight electoral races any action you take has to ensure that the supporters you lost are outnumbered by the undecideds or opponents that you gain.
There's just no way that for any non-Bloc party this is close to coming true. Some Liberal and NDP voters will be upset by this as you are, and stay home. How many Conservative voters do you think will come on board when this is done so close to the election?
NDP voters have made it pointedly clear that they won't vote Liberal even if the NDP don't end up in cabinet, so let's give the partisan BS a rest. A vote for the NDP or Greens is not a "wasted vote". Now is the chance to fix the electoral system so 99% of votes are counted in favour of a representative.
And it's only a power grab now, because the Conservatives figured they could crush opposition parties such as the Greens through a budget change. That's what people need to see, is that the Conservatives were making a power grab themselves, that was not in the spirit of democracy. The coalition "power grab" is entirely democratic, and should allow fair elections in the future.
I would support a government that uses the proportionate representation system so that we don't have this "first past the post" system anymore.
Post a Comment